nice discussion....

Yaar tiwari ek baat bataa
How do u know this much ...
Do u really read geeta , mahabharat etc...

-----Original Message-----
From: deepak




I really appreciate ur attitude.........this is the attitude we must
have
abt religion.........nothing stops us from praising other religions
while
having a firm faith in our own one.

haan isska koi proof to nahi hai......per us kaal ke rishiyon ne veda
mantron ke swayam darshan kiye the......isiliye unhe mantra-drashta
rishi
bhi kehte hain
unhi rishiyon ne smritiyan(these comes after vedas, and were authored by
vedic rishis, it means those things which were itihaas, which happened
in
previous times. i.e Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata are two of the
smritis)

after that SriVedaVyasaji (whom we consider as an Ansha Avataar of
SriNarayana), he divided the huge vedas into 4 books which are known as
4
vedas
SriVedaVyasa took an avataar because he knew that men will not be able
to
comprehend the real meaning of vedas, as vedas are very vaast and they
contain such deep meanings in coded form that achche achche vidvan bhi
use
poori tarah nahi samajh sakte, as they are nothing but the very own
breath
of Lord Narayana. So can a jeev comprehend them without his grace.
Therefore SriVedaVyasa compiled 18 puranas, in which he placed the real
meaning or the essence of vedas.

Yes we believe that Vedas contain everything we can comprehend with our
senses and also those things which are beyond them, as they try to
understand the Paramatma, but in the end vedas describe him as Neti-Neti
(meaning, na iti - he is not this, he is not that.......he is desribed
in
negation, that he is nither short, nor tall, neither moving nor
motionless
etc. and in the end they conclude by describing him as the one who
cannot
be fully understood by anyone without recieving his grace, like arjun
did
see the eternal form of Lord Krishna jab unhone use SrimadBhagavad Gita
ka
updesh diya tha.)

and that very uncomprehensible brahman or parmatma takes a form out of
his
infinte mercy towards his devotees, and performs many leelas so that
devotees have some kind of support for concentrating our minds on his
limitless beauty, unka kripamaya swaroopa, unke asankhya gunn, unka
dhaam(his abode, though he is everywhere, yet for devotess he has a
personal form and an abode as well, that his his mercy), unka sundar
naam,
jaise ki RAM RAM RAM.......and the list is infinite.........


regards,
Deepak



Ranjeet



Waise ik baat to sahi hai ki Hindu dharam yugon yugon se hai, matlab ki
jab manushya dharti par pada hua tab se hi shyad.
Par ik baat bata, yeh sab baatein ki ved pehle se hi the kaise prove
huin. Is everything there inside vedas?



-----Original Message-----
From: deepak

"Ik baat bata Hindu religion kaise start hua tha?"

Jo start hota ho vo end bhi hoga...............duniya ki har vaastu
jiska start hone ka time hai.....iska matlab hai ki uska end bhi
hoga.....ye is sansaar ka aaparivataniya niyam hai.......no one can deny
this ..........

isiliye sanatan dharma kabhi start hi nahi hua...........vo to anaadi
kaal se chala aa raha hai.........haamaari philosophy mein paramatma aur
jeevatma dono anaadi hain.....ussi taraha veda bhi aanadi
hain.......unhein kissi ne nahi likha.....they were always present and
will remain present till pralay........pralaya kaal mein saari srishti
bhagwaan me vileen ho jati hai, jeevatmaein bhi bhagwaan mein leen ho
jati hain......vo kabhi nasht nahi hoti, yahan tak ki bhagwaan bhi kissi
jeevatma ko nashta nahi kar sakte kyonki jeevatma unhi ka ansh hai,
isliye vo bhi anaadi hai.

jo satya shashvat sidhant hai.........vo anadi kaal se hai......aur
anadi kaal tak rahega........na to vo kabhi start hota hai aur na kabhi
end.


aur ek jaroori baat, SriRamchandraji swayama purushottam bhagwan hote
hue bhi prithvi pe ek manushya bhaav se hi aavteerna hue the, unhone to
kabhi chamatkar dikhaya hi nahi........isilye SriRam ke charitra ka hum
poori tarah palan kar sakte hain........rahi samajhe na samajhne wali
baat to ab koi paagal ho to hum use kya samajhyenge ???

haan Bhagwan SriKrishna ne avtaar bhagwaan ke bhaav se hi liya
tha...........issiliye unhone anekon chamatkar dikhaye.........aur
issilye haamre dharma mein SriKrishna ki leelayein anukaran karne ke
liye na ho kar keval chintan (to concentrate) ke liye hain.......jabki
SriRam ki leelaein poori tarah anukaran karne ke liye bhi hain aur
chintan ke liye bhi.


and finally what u told about SriGuruGobinSinghJi, I totally agree with
that, no one can deny this !!!


regards,
Deepak


Ranjeet


Overall baat in sab discussions se yeh nikaltee hai.

Ki Bhagwan apna chamatkaar dikha jaate hain, Par anekon yug mein
manushya to bhej bhej kar bhagwaan pehle unse galtiaan karwaatein hain
aur phir usko use kar ke sansar ko ik ex. dete hain. voh manushya
ofcourse hi apne karmon ko bhog raha hoga.

Ik baat bata Hindu religion kaise start hua tha?

Sikh religion ka to main reason yeh tha ki Sansaar mein ( and Kalyug )
jhooth, paap, andher,,..... Itna bad gaya tha ki kisi sache manushya,
purush, saint , guru , bhagwaan ki jaroorat thi jo is andher ka naas kas
sake, Par kyun ki kalyug ka time bahut bada hai aur Bhagwaan kyun ki ik
manushya ke roop mein aate hain to unhe kuch aisa karna padta hai jisse
us yug mein jhooth aur sach ko samajhne wale log reh sakein, Hum paapon
se bache rahen, hamein acha gayan mile, haameri 84 lakh june kat
jaayein.

Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, ik mahavir, shaktishaali, ik bahut bade
gyaani, kavi, multiple languages ke jaankarak, aur ik sache guru the,
unhone jaalimon par shuru mein kabhi vaar nahin kiya, balki unhonen
kitne hi balidaan diye, Par jab samaya aaya ki ab shastra uthaane ka
time aa gaya hai to unhone apni ik fauz banai thi.

Ab us fauz ko aisa hona chahiye tha ki ik ik sipahi jo sikh hai jang ke
samaya ik sacha vir sipahi bankar ( dharm, sachaai ) ki raksha karega
aur pran dene mein jara sa bhi sankoch nahin karega, Aur jis samaye ik
saint ki jaroorat ho to who ik saint ki terah gyaani hona chahiye.

Us fauz mein unhone paanch pyare, hindu log, sikh log sabko sachai ke
against ladne ko bheja.
Kudh ke 4 putra bhi vaar diye, Pita ko bhi vaar diya, Aur kudh bhi ant
mein vilop ho gaye.

U know Guru Gobind Singh Ji ka ik ik teer, 1 tola Sona ( 10gm ) se saja
hota tha, jo ki ghayal ke liye marham ka kaam, jiski mritu hui uske dah
sanskar ke liye use hota tha.

-----Original Message-----
From: deepak




jinko galat kaam karna hai....vo to kisi bhi bahane se
karlenge............

"Do u think people took it right way and didn't put a finger on their
patnis after Ram ji gave Balidaan?"

ye logon ki apni samajh ke upar hai..........aaag hamaare kitne kaam
aati hai, khana banane mein, industries mein ......ussi tarah pani
haamare kitne kaam aata hai..paani ke bina to hum jee bhi nahi
sakte.......lekin agar kissi ko aag ya pani ka upyog karna nahi aata, to
ho sakta hai vo aag mein hi kood jaye, ya fir pani ko peene ki bajaye
usme kood jaaye..........ab isme kya aag ki galti hai , ya paani ki
galti hai ????

tu kya samajhta hai agar Ramji ne seetaji ka tyaga nahi kiya
hota.......to aaj log apni patnion pe ungli nahi uthate..........abe ye
duniya hai.......yahan saadhu ko log chor aur chor ko saadhu samajh lete
hain..........ye to har vyakti ki apni samajh hai ki vo iss
gunn(virtues) aur avagunn mishrit sansaar mein se kya chunta
hai..............koi vyakti Ramji ko unke dharma palan ke karan apna
pranpriya bana sakta hai......aur doosra koi vyakti unhe stri-virodhi
kehkar unse dushmani bhi kar sakta hai.......

Ex. Ravan to hamesha yahi samajhta tha.......ram bada hi nalayak beta
hoga isiliye dashrath ne use vanvaas de diya.................see, ab koi
ramji ke is tyaga ko kaise-kaise najariyon se dekh sakta hai .....!!!!

kya saare Guru Granth Sahib padhne wale insaan uska theek theek arth
lete honge........aur uske anusar chalte honge...........agar koi kahe
ki ye aadmi roj Guru Granth Sahib ya Roj Ramayana padhta hai, lekin fir
bhi vo kissi rape ya murder kade to kya hum Ramayana ko ye keh kar jala
dein ki ye sab issi ke karan hua hai................are bhai achhe log
ussi ramayana ko padh-padh ke kis avashtha tak pachunch jate.......kitne
mahan ban jate.............lekin kuch log usme se bhi apna man-gadhant
arth le ker apne paapon ke liye samarthan prapt kar lete hai !!!!!!


regards,
Deepak


Ranjeet"



Ok I got it.

So tell me, After that incident, in that yug, what happened to
pati-patni relationship?
Suppose something like that again might have happened later.
Do u think people took it right way and didn't put a finger on their
patnis after Ram ji gave Balidaan?



-----Original Message-----
From: deepak


ab iss baar meri ye poori mail padhiyo.....and think deeply as to why
SriRam did, what he did ?

yes u r right.......I completely agree with u........
main bhi to yahi kaha raha hoon, ki Ram us dhobi ko kya paath padhate,
tune to likh diya ki kuch karte.....vahi to main keh raha hoon ki vo us
samay kya kar sakte the, kya dhobi ke pass ja kar kehte ki sitaji
nirdosh hain ????............isse vo bahar se to haan me haan bhar
deta(daar se ya raja ke sankoch se) lekin isse kya asli me use gyan
prapt ho jata.......kya vo gyani ban jata aur bhagwaan se kshama maang
leta (sachche man se) ???

main kya kah raha hoon isse samajhane ke liye ek baat soch:

ek maa aur ek bachcha hai..........bachcha ro raha hai............vo
baar baar maa ke gaal per thapad maar deta hai.......maa bhi usse ro
ker dikhati hai aur bachcha thodi der ke liye kush ho jata
hai.........fir rone lagta hai.......aur is baar maa khud ko hi thapad
maar leti hai.....aur ro ke bachche se kehti hai........"mummy ko dard
ho raha hai .......:-( aur ye keh kar rone lagti hai"...............maa
ko rote hue dekh kar bachche ko dukh hota hai aur vo chup ho kar maa se
lipat jata hai.............ab agar tu ye kahe ki .....maa ne galat kiya,
usse to bachche ko gyan dena chahiye tha ki aise thapad marna galat baat
hai !!!!!

bas theek ussi taraha, Prabhu Maryada Purushottam SriRamchandraji bhi
apni praja ko putravat hi sneha karte the.........unke ek bete ne,
sitaji ke baare mein upshabd kah ker ek tarah se unke gaal per thapad hi
to maara tha........Bhaktvatsala bhagwan apne bhakton ke doshon ko nahi
dekhte..........kyunki vo hi hamari vastavic maa hain........unke putra
ne bhool ki to unhone uske apradh ka phal swayam bhog ker, sitaji se
viyog ka kasht utha ker, apne us dhobhi putra ko ro ker dikhaya (
aajeevan bramhchari reh kar, doosra vivaha na kar ke, aur yagya me
sitaji ki hi murti apne saath bitha kar)..........isse dhobhi ko bhi
ehsaas hua ki, dekho maine prabhu ke saath kitna anyaay kiya, parantu
fir bhi unhone mujhe ek shabd bh nahi kaha......ulte swayam itne kashta
utha rahe hain, ve aaj bhi sitaji se utna hi prem karte hain aur hridaya
se unhone kabhi-bhi sitaji ka tyaga nahi kiya, tabhi to yagya mein bhi
sitaji ki hi murti baithai hai, aur keval mere kehne per unhone oopari
dikhave ke liye sitaji ka tyaga kar diya, prabhu kaise dayalu aur
bhakt-vatsala hain !!!!
...........ye sab dekh kar to ek pathar hridaya vyakti ko bhi apni bhool
ka ehsass ho jayega.


I hope u will try to understand SriRam from ur heart, not from ur
brain.......un prabhu ko hum jeeev apni budhhi se nahi samajh
sakte.........unhe aur unki karoona ko samajhne ke liye to humein dil
se, bhaav se, aur pyaar se unhe bulaana hoga........tabhi vo
aayenge........agar dimag wale ban kar bulayenge tab to vo humse aur bhi
door ho jayenge !!!!

regards,
Deepak

Ranjeet"